Singer- songwriter Duke Special spoke to David Hennessy as he tours the UK.
Duke Special (54), real name Peter Wilson, is an award-winning singer- songwriter from Northern Ireland. He has released 17 albums and toured all over the world.
His 2005 debut album Adventures in Gramophone boasted the chart hit Freewheel and was nominated for the Choice Music Prize for Irish Album of the Year.
His 2006 follow-up Songs from the Deep Forest was once again nominated for the Choice Music Prize as well as Meteor Award.
The look has certainly changed since he first entered the scene with the dreadlocks and make up no more.
Duke has also embarked on a career creating music for the theatre. This started in 2009 when he worked on a production of Mother Courage and Her Children starring Fiona Shaw at the National Theatre, London.
He also provided music for The Velveteen Rabbit that, reimagined by author Jan Carson, has just wrapped up at the Lyric in Belfast.
His most recent album Blood for Ghosts comprises 10 tracks based on old songs discovered in an archive of sheet music in the Princess Grace Irish Library, Monaco.
The Irish World chatted to Duke about his gigs around the UK that kicked off with a show at Shepherds Bush, London recently.
Are you looking forward to the dates you have coming up?
“Yes, we’re really looking forward to playing.
“I’ve toured up and down the length and breadth of the mainland for many years.
“I do love it.
“I played many support tours over the years and then just gradually built up a following, I suppose.
“It was strange walking past Shepherd’s Bush because I’ve played Bush Hall many times, I’ve played the Shepherds Bush Empire.
“I remember signing a publishing deal. The venue’s gone now but it used to be like this underground toilet on the green called the Ginglik.
“I remember playing there and I think it was just after that, I signed a publishing deal.
“So yeah, a lot of memories of years of touring.”
I assume you will play Freewheel on these upcoming dates, is that a song that you still get as much pleasure out of playing?
“It would be foolish of me not to play songs that people want to hear.
“I suppose I’m always excited to play new things so you have to weave those in carefully to keep people on board with you.
“But I think people who have come to many of my shows will trust me that I will bring them other places that I haven’t been before, they haven’t been with me before, but then I’ll pepper the set with other songs that they will know.
“So yeah, it’s a balancing act always.”
When you wrote Freewheel, did you know what you had?
“I think you know when you’re happy with a song that you’ve written but you’ve, of course, no idea what kind of life or longevity or distance it’s going to go.
“I mean that was a lovely kind of aligning of stars because I was with a big record label at the time and they put a lot of effort into promoting it and it got a lot of radio play.
“That was fortunate in terms of a lot of people being able to hear it.
“I’m always incredibly grateful for that opportunity and for the doors that the song opened for me because that, in a lot of ways, that became my calling card or what I was known for.
“And, of course, you don’t want to be defined by something like that.
“You’ve got lots more to say and places to explore but it’s been an incredibly helpful calling card.”
You’ve just recently finished up, with Jan Carson, a musical at the Lyric in Belfast. That’s something you’re doing more and more, isn’t it?
“It seems about every couple of years I’m doing a play with music now.
“That started from doing Mother Courage and her Children, which strangely, was completely in at the deep end and the biggest theatre in the country, in the National Theatre in London.
“That was a complete unknown to me.
“I’d never written for theatre before.
“I’ve just been commissioned for what will be my eighth play, I think.
“It seems to roughly work out about one every couple of years.”
You described Mother Courage as being in the deep end, you have also in the past spoken about feeling out of your depth with it, was it like that?
“Yeah, it definitely was.
“I mean, you’re working with seasoned professionals in that world and here’s me landing in with zero experience.
“But I think Fiona (Shaw) and her director Deborah Warner enjoyed the fact that I wasn’t coming from that world, that I was coming from this other related art form, and they thankfully saw something in what I was doing that they felt would work.
“And yeah, another thing I’m extremely grateful for.”
Was it perhaps always inevitable you would make that move because people did always say about your work that they could see it lending itself to something more theatrical or something more visual?
“I don’t know if it was inevitable but yes, it was something that people had always been saying to me, ‘I could imagine your songs in a musical’.
“Or, ‘Have you ever thought about writing a musical?’
“And I suppose the opportunity with Mother Courage kind of kick started that journey and showed me that, ‘I actually feel really at home in this environment because of the live nature of it’.
“The fact that it’s different every night: Different audience, you make different mistakes.
“You have to rise to those errors and negotiate how you deal with those and the energy in the room is different every night.
“There are a lot of similarities.
“And I love the inspiration that writing for theatre gives you because you’re not writing directly from your own experience.
“Of course you’re relating it to your own experiences and feelings and thoughts and outlook but it’s another layer of fiction between you and the audience which can mean that you end up writing really freely and you can get some really interesting results.”
Gareth Dunlop, who The Irish World have interviewed, provides support..
“He’s a great songwriter from Belfast and performer so delighted he’s going to be on the show.”
There seems to be a lot coming out of Belfast or indeed the whole province these days. Is it exciting? Do you think people from there are freer to express themselves now?
“I think over the years, probably more and more people have realised that, ‘Okay, you can come from Belfast and do well in music.
“It’s still really tough, the cost of touring is incredibly prohibitive.
“It’s not straightforward and a lot of bands often come over and play for cost so it’s certainly not lucrative up until you get to maybe really big venues and long tours.”
You grew up in a very musical house with your grandmother, mother and siblings all playing the piano. Was it always going to be music for you? Did you ever imagine doing anything else?
“I considered English and Philosophy and social work and community work and things like that, but the urge was too strong, I think, to go down any other path.
“Of course there’s no guarantees.
“It’s not like another job where if you go to college, like engineering or something like that, where employers are queuing up to sign you up.
“You really have to carve a name for yourself.
“It’s different for everyone.
“For me, it was a lot of playing live, a lot of early recordings with other bands that didn’t go anywhere and eventually finding my voice.”
There was also the whole political situation in Northern Ireland at the time that you were looking to emerge. How did that impact?
“I think it made record labels reticent to come over to Belfast because things were so London centric. Obviously you had Dublin, amazing things happening there but Belfast always seemed to feel like this backwater and maybe that gave an impetus or a determination to some people.
“I suppose there’s always been a sense of trying to punch above your own weight.
“It definitely wasn’t easy to attract attention or to travel or anything like that.
“But, yeah, I think, I think it probably gave us a determination maybe.”
Of course you got out at least for a short time, coming to live in Swindon..
“Yes, I joined a band when I was 19 and lived in Swindon and Bristol for two years which is actually where I met Chip who plays with me so we go back a long way.”
Indeed and that experience did lead to you becoming Duke Special, didn’t it?
“In a way, yes.
“I had gone through other incarnations and then it was working with a friend called Paul Pilot.
“He recorded my first couple of EPs.
“Then he produced Songs from the Deep Forest.
“It was really through him helping me reimagine what I was doing and embracing the piano and being able to sing Duke Special was born out of.”
I’ve heard you say Peter Wilson was too common a name to go under but was it also about maybe finding that freedom to be yourself, ironically, by calling yourself something different? Is that how it felt? Was it very necessary?
“I think it was very necessary.
“And you’re right, there’s this great kind of irony in that when you pretend to be something else, you can actually be yourself.
“I find that really freeing.
“Some people are very comfortable with using their own name.
“I enjoyed the enigma, the other worldliness, the vehicle that having another name created and found it really useful.”
The other irony is you were freer then to sing in your own Northern Irish accent, something you became known for..
“When I was in England, the producers were trying to make me sing more neutral which of course just sanitises who you are and the character that everyone has in their voices.
“I began to feel more confident, ‘Do you know what? I’m from this place and I’m happy with that’.”
Let’s talk about Blood for Ghosts, your most recent album that came out in 2023.
Will you be playing a lot of that material at these shows?
“It will be a mixture.
“The last three albums I’ve done have been quite concept- based.
“There was Blood for Ghosts based on old song sheets that my attention had been drawn to in a archive.
“The previous one the poetry of Michael Longley, Hallow.
“And A Note Let Go, a collaboration with a traditional band from Belfast, Ulaid.
“So will definitely be drawing from those as well as everything else that I’ve done, and unreleased material.
“As I mentioned, I’m excited to be working on a new record now and writing for that.
“It’s not a concept album.
“It will be a more personal, I suppose, Duke Special record.”
I was going to mention Michael Longley and the work you had done with his poetry. Performing that will be poignant, won’t it as he passed away only recently?
“Yeah, that’s right.
“All Songs kind of change over time depending what you’ve experienced yourself or the associations that you have with them.
“So any songs from that album, there will be an emotion involved in that because of, as you mentioned, he passed away recently.
“But there are just such wonderful words so it will always be a delight to revisit them.
“But yeah, they certainly feel particularly poignant at the moment.”
Blood for Ghosts, as you say, came from music you discovered in the archives, was it about breathing new life into that music from bygone eras?
“Yeah, the title is a version of something that Ezra Pound said about his translations of old Chinese poems, the idea that it was providing blood to ghosts, which is maybe arrogant to say you know that but I suppose the thought is that something, a song in my case, that has lain undiscovered for a long time, might still be relevant today.
“The same happens every time someone covers someone else’s song.
“It’s like a new version and it’s sustaining the life of that song in some way and with different slightly different clothes on it.
“I think it’s the test of a good song is that it stands the test of time.”
You were honoured to have quite the supporting cast with Seán Óg Graham and Niamh Dunne of Beoga, and Joshua Burnside, pianist Ruth McGinley and Tríona Ní Dhomhnaill among those who feature on the album…
“I love that, just kind of gathering people that feel right for a particular project like Ruth McGinley- wonderful concert pianist- and Liam Bradley on drums, and Nicky Scott on upright bass.
“And Seán Óg who recorded all of the songs.
“With Tríona Ní Dhomhnaill from The Bothy Band, that was like a pinch me moment.
“I still haven’t met her but I had listened to The Bothy Band when I was young and always loved her playing.
“I asked Seán Óg, ‘Do you know these guys?’
“And he said, ‘Yeah’.
“And I said, ‘Well, any chance I could get Tríona’s email to ask?’
“And so that’s how it came about.
“And she was really happy to do it, and recorded it remotely, and then sent me the recording.
“It’s always just like a photograph of the people you’re with at that time and the people that you feel right for the collection of songs.”
What makes you most proud?
“Most recently something I’m really grateful for and proud of was a collaboration with David Bowie’s backing band and the RTÉ Concert Orchestra.
“I don’t know if proud is the right word but I was delighted to be involved in that. I love playing with orchestras.
“Under the Dark Cloth is a special album to me because of the writing of it.
“I wrote a lot of the songs with Boo Hewerdine, a friend and I love the journey that that took.
“But they’re all like children in some way so they feel special in different ways and for different reasons.”
You had great moments touring with Snow Patrol etc..
“Amazing opportunities playing with Snow Patrol and Crowded House, Beautiful South.
“Everything seemed to strike at the same time.
“I remember being on tour with the Divine Comedy and in the middle of that having to fly back to London to perform on Jools Holland and then fly back to rejoin the tour.
“That felt like incredible synchronicity and just all the planets aligning for things to really take off.
“But none of that would have happened if I hadn’t been playing really small venues.
“Chip and I always make a point of anywhere that we play, going out and giving it everything.
“That’s no different whether it’s an arena or a back room in a bar.”
You mentioned Jools Holland, was that the time you were on with Amy Winehouse and more big names?
“It was a pinch me moment just looking around the room and seeing Jack White and Amy Winehouse and Muse, it was surreal.”
Did you get to chat to those people you just mentioned?
“Tiny bit. You just say hello, and I probably would have frozen anyway.”
We’ve spoken about Duke Special and Peter. Is there a difference now? Obviously the look has changed from what Duke Special was back in the day, is there less and less of a difference between Peter and Duke or is there still a big difference for you?
“I think there still is a difference.
“The confidence to go on stage, the freedom for writing, all of that still helps.
“I think I’m probably a lot more confident as Peter now.
“That’s something I’ve talked quite a bit about in the last few years but the vehicle of Duke Special is still really useful at times.
“Ask me again in 10 years, I’ll probably be able to answer that a bit better.”
Duke Special plays Voodoo Rooms in Edinburgh on Thursday 10 April, Pink Room, YES on Friday 11 April, Hyde Park Book Club in Leeds on Saturday 12 April, Hare & Hounds in Kings Heath on Sunday 13 April and The Cluny in Newcastle on Monday 14 April.
For more information, click here.
