King and I
Writer/ director Dermot Malone told David Hennessy about his debut feature film King Frankie which is nominated for Best Film at this week’s IFTA awards.
Dermot Malone’s debut film King Frankie took the Best Film award at the Irish Film Awards London at the Irish Embassy in November.
It is nominated- alongside the films Kathleen is Here, Kneecap, Small Things Like These, Spilt Milk and The Apprentice- for Best Film at this week’s IFTA awards. Leading man Peter Coonan is also nominated in the Best Actor category.
The film has been described as a ‘cautionary’ reminder of Celtic Tiger delusions.
Peter Coonan’s Frankie is mourning the loss of his father when the story takes us to ten years earlier when a very different Frankie was making every effort to get ahead and with not so much thought to the consequences.
We chatted to writer/ director Dermot Malone ahead of this week’s awards.
You must be delighted with the IFTA nomination..
“Yeah, we’ve had a really nice couple of weeks doing a tour with the NI Hub up in Northern Ireland and doing some screenings.
“It’s been lovely getting back into Q and As and really engaging with the film.
“We’ve got a few US festivals now that we’re screening at, a few across Europe so yeah, really looking forward to it.
“The IFTAs, for us, was unexpected and just to be sat there, beside films like Small Things Like These and Kneecap is an honour really so we’re happy to be in the room.
“Hopefully it bodes well for stories we get to tell and films we get to make in the future.”
It follows you picking up Best Film at the Irish Film London Awards at the Irish Embassy in November which meant a great deal to you, didn’t it?
“Yeah, 100%.
“It’s when you get recognition from your peers, it means that the film is connecting with people, or some people at least.
“I think that’s all you can ask as a filmmaker, you want to make something that stirs a conversation, that makes people think about something or ruminate on something.
“It’s been a really lovely thing for the first time out.”
Neil Jordan was there to see you pick up that award, was it a bit surreal?
“Yeah, it was wild that he got his award, a lifetime achievement award, and then we had to get ours afterwards.
“I felt it was very anti-climactic for the audience.
“But of course it’s something I won’t forget anytime soon.”
King Frankie is your debut film. I imagine it was a story you are passionate about due to making it that. Was it a labour of love?
“Yeah, 100%.
“I mean, with the first film, following that old adage of ‘write what you know’, and try and tell a story that is, I guess suitable, and that’s realistic, but first and foremost for me was to try and make something that addressed something that I wanted to discuss or interrogate. And that’s what I did.
“It was a personal story about redemption and how to come back from guilt and the capacity to change.
“We pulled in a huge amount of goodwill, a huge amount of love from collaborators that we work with in the advertising industry and commercials and a big old labour of love from everyone involved.
“And hopefully it was worth it.
“I guess time will tell. But we just want to get going on the next one.”
You say it was something you wanted to discuss. There are themes of greed. It’s also a cautionary tale because it seems like we could return to those materialistic times and that’s why it’s important to remember…
“Yeah, I think the main thing for me was that good people can do bad things.
“Good people can behave badly but we have to always allow for the capacity to change and to allow for that redemption story and to give people second chances.
“And it’s a period in time that I don’t feel has been massively explored in Irish storytelling for some reason.
“It was just something that I’d seen all around me.
“I’d seen so many people in so many sections of the Irish society who were so devastatingly affected by what happened, some through no power of their own, some through, as you say, greed and that desire to join the club if you will.
“It kind of came crashing down for a lot of people.
“Yeah, cautionary is right.
“It does feel like sometimes we haven’t learned any lessons from that place which is kind of scary, I think it’s very important that we always know what the most important things in our life are.
“Hopefully people who watch King Frankie can take something to that end.”
You say good people can do bad things, Frankie is one of these, isn’t he? Because, to me, he’s not a bad guy..
“Yeah, there’s a bunch of characters in the film, Fraser and the lads: They kind of are bad people.
“They don’t really seem to have any empathy or sympathy or anything.
“And Frankie, for some reason, deluded himself into thinking that he wants to have those things, be that guy and be in that club.
“But you can tell from the off that he’s not like those guys and he’s gone too far.
“He’s gone too far.
“He’s gone past the point of no return and he has to try and do whatever he can to solve a situation or to get on par with those guys, and it blows up in his face.
“He loses everything.
“He loses someone.
“He becomes a shell of a man and has to try and rebuild from there and learn from what he went through.
“Another thing that was important to me was that I didn’t want it to feel like fairy tale where everything wrapped up neatly in a bow and it was perfect.
“I just wanted to give a sense that maybe he’ll be okay and I hope that the film does that.”
Key was the casting of Peter Coonan. The film rests on his shoulders really, doesn’t it? There’s probably not too many scenes throughout the whole thing that he’s not in.
“He’s central.
“When we were in the editing process, it was funny.
“We did have some scenes that went away from Frankie’s central story and they just felt entirely wrong.
“It felt like it is a film that rests on Frankie’s shoulders and Peter Coonan’s shoulders and we’re with him all the time.
“We feel his tension and his anxiety and his stress, and then also his fear and his guilt, and ultimately, his kind of epiphany, kind of looking himself in the mirror and saying the sorrys and moving forward.
“Peter’s incredible.
“I think it’s, if I don’t say so myself, I think it’s the most incredible performance I’ve seen from him, of which there are many because it’s so nuanced.
“He’s basically playing two versions of the same bloke, pre and post probably a nervous breakdown.
“It’s just so impressive how naturally he took to it.”
He said in the Q and A at Irish Film Festival London last year that he had to learn that that less is more. Was it about him not going with maybe his his instincts to be a bigger character, as we’ve seen in characters like Fran from Love/Hate..
“I think in that flashback sequence, Frankie I smiles and brash.
“He’s a big character and he’s telling jokes and he’s having a drink and he’s singing songs, and that comes very naturally to Peter.
“He’s a big character, he’s an infectious person to be around.
“Then in that modern timeline when he had a bit of a broken man sense to him.
“It was just amazing to see him come back and be that kind of still, quiet, introverted, small character who clearly had been through some form of trauma.
“Because he’s so good at playing those big characters and we have probably seen less of him doing the smaller ones that it was a real joy to watch him, because he’s more than capable of doing so many things.”
The supporting cast includes Owen Roe, Ally Ni Chiarain, Conor MacNeill and another Love/ Hate cast member in Lynn Rafferty. You couldn’t have asked for more from your supporting cast, could you?
“Yeah, very much.
“Although it centres on Frankie and Peter Coonan, it’s very much an ensemble film.
“There’s, I think, ten characters with arcs and a big presence in the story and we were blessed.
“My brother Rob has a big part of the film playing Cathal.
“Ruairi (O’Connor), who plays Fraser, is a great friend of mine.
“Conor MacNeill is a great friend of mine forever.
“And then working with the like of Lynn and Olivia (Caffrey), and Owen Roe and Ally and these guys who are so experienced, who I’ve loved watching for a very long time.
“I was blessed, it was real imposter syndrome stuff.
“They helped me a lot.”
Someone who have interviewed in The Irish World is Alan Mahon who has an important and tragic role in the film..
“Yeah, Alan’s a great friend.
“Alan’s been in so many things that I’ve done, short films and commercials and stuff like that.
“He’s actually a go to actor for me because I trust him, we understand each other.
“He also has this really unique quality, almost like Tom Hanks, where he’s just instantly likable.
“As soon as the audience see his face, you’re on his side and I really felt like with the character of Peter had to have that quality, you just want him to do well and that kind of makes what happens all the more devastating.”
Being your first feature you needed actors you could trust, didn’t you?
“I like to think that there’s no ego whenever I’m making something really.
“Peter Coonan and Owen Rowe and Alan and Conor and Rob, all these guys, Lynn, have made amazing films.
“They were all amazing at helping me along the way.
“I hope I know what I’m doing but it was very, very comforting to know that I had such warm, generous, spirited collaborators around me. And that was the case.”
Let’s talk about grief because that’s obviously so key to the story as well. It is what Frankie’s going through that really forces him to examine his own life and character..
“Yeah, I think we’ve all experienced grief in our life at some level.
“I’ve tried to tap into my own experience of that time and my own losing of someone in that way.
“It stays with you for a very long time.
“Those scars are not quick to disappear and maybe they never disappear and I think with Frankie, it’s 10 years later, and it’s clear that he’s not 100% fine at all.
“He’s still recovering and he’s still dealing with those kind of ghosts of the past and particularly on the day that’s in it, everything just comes rushing back.
“I just think it’s an interesting theme to explore, grief, because it’s so complicated and so multifaceted and affects everyone differently.
“It’s an area that I’m really interested in.”
You dealt with grief in a previous short film, Goodbye My Brother..
“Yeah, that was actually written in the direct aftermath of losing someone close, and it’s actually terrible.
“It was a knee jerk reaction to something, and we never actually released it.
“It all happened too quick.
“It’s funny, 10 years later or whatever it is now you feel like a more confident filmmaker being able to subtly examine and interrogate these themes.
“It’s obviously been something that I’m interested in.
“I find anything that happens to you in life, any of these kind of big, seminal moments in your life, stay with you and I think as a filmmaker, you’ll always just gravitate back towards them because they’re what you probably think about and what live in your subconscious quite a lot.”
How have you enjoyed seeing audiences reacting to this film and its themes?
“It’s a small film and we made it kind of outside the ropes, which means that we didn’t have years in development with Screen Ireland.
“We didn’t have sales agents and distribution attached initially so we really punched above our weight from the start.
“We didn’t know whether this film would get into a festival.
“We didn’t know whether it would ever be seen by anyone.
“So the festival run that we had was amazing and then getting Screen Ireland to come on board the film, to getting Wildcards to distribute the film at every level, it’s been a huge shot in the arm for us and people are seeing it.
“The reaction we’re getting from audiences all around the world and certainly all around Ireland, it’s been amazing.
“It makes all that hard work, sacrifice and years of work on it really, really feel worthwhile.
“I come from an advertising background where you make a project, you put it out, it goes on TV for a couple of months and then you move on to the next one.
“It’s very rare that you’re still thinking about what you did six months ago or people are still thinking about it, or people are asking you about it. It’s very rare.
“It’s certainly a really new thing for me to have something that is in the culture, that people are talking about.
“And it’s been really nice.”
Once again it is a cautionary tale of certain attitudes and values that we shouldn’t forget the danger of..
“You look at the housing crisis and house prices now, and government overspending.
“That sense of really getting ahead of ourselves does come up.
“I think of the housing crisis now and how inaccessible housing is for people.
“It’s forcing people to either leave the country or to move out into the middle of nowhere.
“That’s a real issue for such a wealthy country.
“That’s something that happened pre-Celtic Tiger so it’s, I guess, cautionary for a couple of reasons.
“Maybe that’s why it’s striking a chord.”
So what’s next? This was your first feature film and I expect you are already working on the next one..
“Yeah, working on a couple of projects.
“Myself and my brother are writing a feature film called Shine which is kind of a family thriller/ drama.
“It’s a story about brothers and their estranged father all against the backdrop of a dystopian zombie epidemic on the west coast of Ireland.
“It’s a bit different but I think the core values of anything I’m ever going to do is going to be about family and humanity and relationships.
“That’s what I’m interested in: What happens in a pressure cooker? What happens to people in relationships when the heat’s turned up and how they expose who they really are, what they really want and what’s really going on.
“That’s something that really fascinates me and that’s what I’ll keep looking at.”
The IFTA awards take place this Friday 14 February.
